Comments on: Letters to the Editor http://www.timesdelphic.com/2010/02/11/letters-to-the-editor Drake University - News, Sports, Information Sun, 05 Sep 2010 13:54:07 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Aaron Harrison http://www.timesdelphic.com/2010/02/11/letters-to-the-editor/comment-page-1#comment-2678 Aaron Harrison Wed, 10 Mar 2010 01:10:13 +0000 http://www.timesdelphic.com/?p=2735#comment-2678 Anon: See? What we are doing now is entirely speculative. Your entire last comment proves that. I'm just going with what I perceive and with what I know to be fact. This is exactly what I warned against in my letter. If we begin the blame debate, the student body will end up on the bad end of it. Also, you give zero tolerance a bad rap. It works, when used correctly and in reasonable situations. I think it's entirely reasonable for college students to give up alcohol for the safety of their peers. Anon:
See? What we are doing now is entirely speculative. Your entire last comment proves that. I’m just going with what I perceive and with what I know to be fact. This is exactly what I warned against in my letter. If we begin the blame debate, the student body will end up on the bad end of it.
Also, you give zero tolerance a bad rap. It works, when used correctly and in reasonable situations. I think it’s entirely reasonable for college students to give up alcohol for the safety of their peers.

]]> By: Anon http://www.timesdelphic.com/2010/02/11/letters-to-the-editor/comment-page-1#comment-2583 Anon Thu, 25 Feb 2010 13:57:38 +0000 http://www.timesdelphic.com/?p=2735#comment-2583 Yes, your "logical, reasonable, and thoughtful measures" boil down to a zero tolerance policy on alcohol. You mention no other safety measures other than this. That must have been a tough thing to pinpoint. And how do you know that they were drinking heavily? Are you assuming that because they were at a bar? I know this may come as a shock to you, but people can go to the bar and not get drunk. And zero tolerance will not solve the problem or lessen the chances of people wanting to get out and drink. Forbidden fruit theory ring any bells? How do you know that the victims don't feel responsible? Or do you want them to announce it publicly? What the victims do after these assaults is for them to decide. Yes, your “logical, reasonable, and thoughtful measures” boil down to a zero tolerance policy on alcohol. You mention no other safety measures other than this. That must have been a tough thing to pinpoint.

And how do you know that they were drinking heavily? Are you assuming that because they were at a bar? I know this may come as a shock to you, but people can go to the bar and not get drunk.

And zero tolerance will not solve the problem or lessen the chances of people wanting to get out and drink. Forbidden fruit theory ring any bells?

How do you know that the victims don’t feel responsible? Or do you want them to announce it publicly? What the victims do after these assaults is for them to decide.

]]> By: Aaron Harrison http://www.timesdelphic.com/2010/02/11/letters-to-the-editor/comment-page-1#comment-2550 Aaron Harrison Mon, 22 Feb 2010 06:44:34 +0000 http://www.timesdelphic.com/?p=2735#comment-2550 Anon, I fail to see how my statements are inflammatory. I am forwarding logical, reasonable, and thoughtful measures to counteract a growing problem on campus. I've said this several times, and, yet again, your bias refuses to let you see it, but we have no purpose in blaming the attacker. The attacker is already, presumably, under arrest for their actions. They will face the full extent of the law. What we say won't change that. Now, I'm going to reiterate what I have been saying, because, just as I predicted, this blame debate has spiraled down to nothing but useless back and forth. The victim, unless assaulted entirely out the blue, has their share of blame to accept. In the two assaults last semester, alcohol was a factor. The victims were drinking heavily. That is their fault. They are prime targets for an attack. Would this have happened if they were not drinking? Most definitely. Zero tolerance would lessen the chances of people wanting to get out and drink, even though there are clearly enough reasons to do so anyway. Accepting responsibility is what every single person in every single incident in the world has to do. You are not letting the victims do that. You need to. It's only right. Anon, I fail to see how my statements are inflammatory. I am forwarding logical, reasonable, and thoughtful measures to counteract a growing problem on campus. I’ve said this several times, and, yet again, your bias refuses to let you see it, but we have no purpose in blaming the attacker. The attacker is already, presumably, under arrest for their actions. They will face the full extent of the law. What we say won’t change that.
Now, I’m going to reiterate what I have been saying, because, just as I predicted, this blame debate has spiraled down to nothing but useless back and forth. The victim, unless assaulted entirely out the blue, has their share of blame to accept. In the two assaults last semester, alcohol was a factor. The victims were drinking heavily. That is their fault. They are prime targets for an attack. Would this have happened if they were not drinking? Most definitely. Zero tolerance would lessen the chances of people wanting to get out and drink, even though there are clearly enough reasons to do so anyway. Accepting responsibility is what every single person in every single incident in the world has to do. You are not letting the victims do that. You need to. It’s only right.

]]> By: Anon http://www.timesdelphic.com/2010/02/11/letters-to-the-editor/comment-page-1#comment-2541 Anon Sun, 21 Feb 2010 00:26:21 +0000 http://www.timesdelphic.com/?p=2735#comment-2541 Your statements are completely inflammatory! How is it counterproductive to blame the perpetrator of attacks? Victim blaming is counterproductive because it makes victims feel like it is their fault and that they shouldn't come forward. If a victim of sexual assault becomes pregnant are you going to blame her for not being on birth control! Why should the victim be a criminal? If someone is of age and drinking and sexually assaulted, should the victim still be treated as a criminal? Sometimes victims think they're doing everything they can. They carry a rape whistle or they carry pepper spray or they never go out alone. But attackers will attack. They will find a way. Even if the university were to institute a zero tolerance policy with alcohol. And while I may not know the specifics of all of the incidents, I do know that perpetrators should be punished and not the victims. The victims have already paid a price; don't make them keep paying. By the way-I have specifically stated that my opinions of you have no place in this forum. So, to say that my bias against you is affecting the way I respond is inaccurate. You do not stop rapes by blaming victims or alcohol or the establishments that serve alcohol either. You stop rapes by stopping the rapists. I truly hope you are NEVER the victim of a crime. Your statements are completely inflammatory!

How is it counterproductive to blame the perpetrator of attacks? Victim blaming is counterproductive because it makes victims feel like it is their fault and that they shouldn’t come forward.

If a victim of sexual assault becomes pregnant are you going to blame her for not being on birth control!

Why should the victim be a criminal? If someone is of age and drinking and sexually assaulted, should the victim still be treated as a criminal? Sometimes victims think they’re doing everything they can. They carry a rape whistle or they carry pepper spray or they never go out alone. But attackers will attack. They will find a way. Even if the university were to institute a zero tolerance policy with alcohol.

And while I may not know the specifics of all of the incidents, I do know that perpetrators should be punished and not the victims. The victims have already paid a price; don’t make them keep paying.

By the way-I have specifically stated that my opinions of you have no place in this forum. So, to say that my bias against you is affecting the way I respond is inaccurate.

You do not stop rapes by blaming victims or alcohol or the establishments that serve alcohol either. You stop rapes by stopping the rapists.

I truly hope you are NEVER the victim of a crime.

]]> By: Aaron Harrison http://www.timesdelphic.com/2010/02/11/letters-to-the-editor/comment-page-1#comment-2532 Aaron Harrison Fri, 19 Feb 2010 03:22:48 +0000 http://www.timesdelphic.com/?p=2735#comment-2532 Anon: That is not skepticism of the victim. That is treating all parties as innocent until proven guilty. What you seem to be advocating goes against that touchstone of law. I am still confused as to why you refuse to cease your blaming. It's counterproductive. How will this situation resolve itself when all you want to do is shield the victim from their own responsibilities? We are also speculating heavily. This latest assault may have already been resolved, for all we know. We don't even really know if alcohol is truly involved. But, the only things you and your friends have been stating are attacks at me, questions about my personal life, and constant reiterations about how the attacker did everything wrong and how the victim is some flawless martyr for your cause. Sorry, but this is getting intolerable. How long are you going to tell me that, under no circumstances, the victim did not, and never shall, do anything that would have even lead them to their unfortunate situation? Do you even know the exact details about the prior two assaults, or any assault for that matter? Can you say you are a more qualified specialist in these things? You are blinded by your own biases against me, even though all I have done to you is stood up to your illogical beliefs. You have admitted so yourself. I strongly suggest that, at the very least, you become more open to those who have differing opinions. In this debate, you have refused to do anything but disagree and bicker with me over semantics. That is not how you stop rape. That is not how you protect students, and that is not how you solve problems. Remember that. Anon: That is not skepticism of the victim. That is treating all parties as innocent until proven guilty. What you seem to be advocating goes against that touchstone of law.
I am still confused as to why you refuse to cease your blaming. It’s counterproductive. How will this situation resolve itself when all you want to do is shield the victim from their own responsibilities? We are also speculating heavily. This latest assault may have already been resolved, for all we know. We don’t even really know if alcohol is truly involved. But, the only things you and your friends have been stating are attacks at me, questions about my personal life, and constant reiterations about how the attacker did everything wrong and how the victim is some flawless martyr for your cause. Sorry, but this is getting intolerable. How long are you going to tell me that, under no circumstances, the victim did not, and never shall, do anything that would have even lead them to their unfortunate situation? Do you even know the exact details about the prior two assaults, or any assault for that matter? Can you say you are a more qualified specialist in these things? You are blinded by your own biases against me, even though all I have done to you is stood up to your illogical beliefs. You have admitted so yourself. I strongly suggest that, at the very least, you become more open to those who have differing opinions. In this debate, you have refused to do anything but disagree and bicker with me over semantics. That is not how you stop rape. That is not how you protect students, and that is not how you solve problems. Remember that.

]]> By: Anon http://www.timesdelphic.com/2010/02/11/letters-to-the-editor/comment-page-1#comment-2521 Anon Thu, 18 Feb 2010 13:35:09 +0000 http://www.timesdelphic.com/?p=2735#comment-2521 Aaron, "To assume the victim is right without even viewing the evidence is immature and ignorant. We need to question everything about the situation, before we make claims of guilt." These are your words to which I specifically found to be skepticism of victims that come forward. "In most cases, the victim places themselves in a dangerous situation, usually by drinking." Again-these are your words to which I responded. This sounds a lot like victim blaming and not taking victims so seriously. I believe in blaming the system that nearly forces victims to keep quiet and I blame the perpetrators of such crimes. I never accused you of being a "heartless misogynist," or "a hateful bigot, with no considerations for others." I said you had no sympathy for victims of sexual assault, whether the victims are male or female, based off of the comment I reference above. And my opinions of you have much more colorful language, but they have no place in such a forum. Aaron,

“To assume the victim is right without even viewing the evidence is immature and ignorant. We need to question everything about the situation, before we make claims of guilt.”

These are your words to which I specifically found to be skepticism of victims that come forward.

“In most cases, the victim places themselves in a dangerous situation, usually by drinking.”

Again-these are your words to which I responded. This sounds a lot like victim blaming and not taking victims so seriously. I believe in blaming the system that nearly forces victims to keep quiet and I blame the perpetrators of such crimes.

I never accused you of being a “heartless misogynist,” or “a hateful bigot, with no considerations for others.” I said you had no sympathy for victims of sexual assault, whether the victims are male or female, based off of the comment I reference above. And my opinions of you have much more colorful language, but they have no place in such a forum.

]]> By: Aaron Harrison http://www.timesdelphic.com/2010/02/11/letters-to-the-editor/comment-page-1#comment-2511 Aaron Harrison Wed, 17 Feb 2010 02:00:19 +0000 http://www.timesdelphic.com/?p=2735#comment-2511 Anon, I fear you are reading things in my statements that are simply not there. If a woman is raped, they need to prove it. That's how the law system works. There is no way around it. The burden of proof is on the victim. Whether or not you disagree with this is irrelevant. It is law. Again, I do not encourage skepticism, I just don't want anyone falsely accused. Honestly, I didn't even talk about refusing to believe a victim. Only you and Andrew brought it up. I have also dealt with the issue of blame in a concise and reasonable way. I see no relevance in bringing up the issue again. It is individuals like yourself who keep propagating the blame cycle. If people like you continue to control the debate over this issue, it will never get solved. Finally, I am severely insulted by your smears. You are accusing me of not only being a heartless misogynist, but a hateful bigot, with no considerations for others. Obviously, none of these are true, but you cannot get beyond your own biases. You would benefit greatly from managing your tone and taking a step back to consider the situation. Anon, I fear you are reading things in my statements that are simply not there. If a woman is raped, they need to prove it. That’s how the law system works. There is no way around it. The burden of proof is on the victim. Whether or not you disagree with this is irrelevant. It is law. Again, I do not encourage skepticism, I just don’t want anyone falsely accused. Honestly, I didn’t even talk about refusing to believe a victim. Only you and Andrew brought it up.
I have also dealt with the issue of blame in a concise and reasonable way. I see no relevance in bringing up the issue again. It is individuals like yourself who keep propagating the blame cycle. If people like you continue to control the debate over this issue, it will never get solved.
Finally, I am severely insulted by your smears. You are accusing me of not only being a heartless misogynist, but a hateful bigot, with no considerations for others. Obviously, none of these are true, but you cannot get beyond your own biases. You would benefit greatly from managing your tone and taking a step back to consider the situation.

]]> By: Anon http://www.timesdelphic.com/2010/02/11/letters-to-the-editor/comment-page-1#comment-2499 Anon Mon, 15 Feb 2010 12:40:38 +0000 http://www.timesdelphic.com/?p=2735#comment-2499 Why should we be so skeptical of a victim? It takes some real guts to come forward about sexual assaults, and I think you forget this. It is extremely demeaning for a victim of sexual assault to go to the hospital and be examined and questioned by medical professionals as well as law enforcement and other officials. To doubt a victim's statements is a slap in the face. Individuals like yourself are the reason victims don't want to come forward. They don't want to be part of "the blame game." They want to feel safe and protected, and because people like you think the way they do, victims feel neither safe or protected. In your article you reference zero-tolerance policies regarding alcohol, but only on-campus apparently. So, if a woman (regardless of age) consumes alcohol off campus, but is sexually assaulted by someone on campus, what do you propose? Are you going to blame the victim for drinking? You show no sympathy for victims of sexual assault. I wonder what you would do if you were on the other side of the equation. Would you want people to blame you or be skeptical of your statements? Why should we be so skeptical of a victim? It takes some real guts to come forward about sexual assaults, and I think you forget this. It is extremely demeaning for a victim of sexual assault to go to the hospital and be examined and questioned by medical professionals as well as law enforcement and other officials. To doubt a victim’s statements is a slap in the face.

Individuals like yourself are the reason victims don’t want to come forward. They don’t want to be part of “the blame game.” They want to feel safe and protected, and because people like you think the way they do, victims feel neither safe or protected.

In your article you reference zero-tolerance policies regarding alcohol, but only on-campus apparently. So, if a woman (regardless of age) consumes alcohol off campus, but is sexually assaulted by someone on campus, what do you propose? Are you going to blame the victim for drinking?

You show no sympathy for victims of sexual assault. I wonder what you would do if you were on the other side of the equation. Would you want people to blame you or be skeptical of your statements?

]]> By: Aaron Harrison http://www.timesdelphic.com/2010/02/11/letters-to-the-editor/comment-page-1#comment-2490 Aaron Harrison Sun, 14 Feb 2010 19:22:28 +0000 http://www.timesdelphic.com/?p=2735#comment-2490 I don't understand how you can make the leap from me saying alcohol is a problem and "women should avoid all alcohol". I never said anything remotely close to that. The points that I was making had nothing to do with women of legal age consuming alcohol off-campus. In the future, I would avoid making such baseless claims. I don’t understand how you can make the leap from me saying alcohol is a problem and “women should avoid all alcohol”. I never said anything remotely close to that. The points that I was making had nothing to do with women of legal age consuming alcohol off-campus. In the future, I would avoid making such baseless claims.

]]> By: Drake Student http://www.timesdelphic.com/2010/02/11/letters-to-the-editor/comment-page-1#comment-2475 Drake Student Fri, 12 Feb 2010 16:36:18 +0000 http://www.timesdelphic.com/?p=2735#comment-2475 Would the victims be at fault if they were of age and drinking in a bar? Should all women just avoid alcohol altogether? Because that is exactly what are saying, Aaron. If drinking is as much of the problem as you claim, than age is irrelevant. You want all women to avoid alcohol because of what some people might do to them. Would the victims be at fault if they were of age and drinking in a bar? Should all women just avoid alcohol altogether? Because that is exactly what are saying, Aaron. If drinking is as much of the problem as you claim, than age is irrelevant. You want all women to avoid alcohol because of what some people might do to them.

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