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	<title>Comments on: Fraternity suspended from Drake for four years</title>
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	<link>http://www.timesdelphic.com/2009/11/16/fraternity-suspended-from-drake-for-four-years</link>
	<description>The Student Newspaper for Drake University and Des Moines Since 1884</description>
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		<title>By: a bulldog</title>
		<link>http://www.timesdelphic.com/2009/11/16/fraternity-suspended-from-drake-for-four-years/comment-page-1#comment-2049</link>
		<dc:creator>a bulldog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Dec 2009 00:42:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesdelphic.com/?p=1738#comment-2049</guid>
		<description>While I am not a member, or in anyway associated with the fraternity, I would attempt an appeal of the decision. It happened to one kid and for anyone to generalize the entire fraternity is blatantly ignorant. While drinking has become a part of college life, I believe that this action toward the fraternity is ridicules. If anything, the ones who should be punished are the ones that took part in the &quot;hazing&quot; not the fraternity as a whole.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I am not a member, or in anyway associated with the fraternity, I would attempt an appeal of the decision. It happened to one kid and for anyone to generalize the entire fraternity is blatantly ignorant. While drinking has become a part of college life, I believe that this action toward the fraternity is ridicules. If anything, the ones who should be punished are the ones that took part in the &#8220;hazing&#8221; not the fraternity as a whole.</p>
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		<title>By: Anon</title>
		<link>http://www.timesdelphic.com/2009/11/16/fraternity-suspended-from-drake-for-four-years/comment-page-1#comment-1263</link>
		<dc:creator>Anon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 04:45:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesdelphic.com/?p=1738#comment-1263</guid>
		<description>&quot;What’s so dangerous about this factual statement: Greek houses haze their initiates by using alcohol to poison them. I’ve never talked to a single Greek that would deny this. Not one. Your “secret” isn’t safe anymore.&quot;

This IS NOT a factual statement. I don&#039;t know which members of which houses you have been talking to (one member of one house does not constitute all members of all houses), but that is a very dangerous statement to put out as fact. 

What people outside of the system don&#039;t understand is the unity amongst members. When something happens to one house, it affects all of the houses in profound ways. And some people just don&#039;t understand that bond. 

I assume the &quot;business-as-usual&quot; you reference is because of the &quot;factual&quot; statement you present. Your fact is fiction and not &quot;business-as-usual.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;What’s so dangerous about this factual statement: Greek houses haze their initiates by using alcohol to poison them. I’ve never talked to a single Greek that would deny this. Not one. Your “secret” isn’t safe anymore.&#8221;</p>
<p>This IS NOT a factual statement. I don&#8217;t know which members of which houses you have been talking to (one member of one house does not constitute all members of all houses), but that is a very dangerous statement to put out as fact. </p>
<p>What people outside of the system don&#8217;t understand is the unity amongst members. When something happens to one house, it affects all of the houses in profound ways. And some people just don&#8217;t understand that bond. </p>
<p>I assume the &#8220;business-as-usual&#8221; you reference is because of the &#8220;factual&#8221; statement you present. Your fact is fiction and not &#8220;business-as-usual.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: drake student</title>
		<link>http://www.timesdelphic.com/2009/11/16/fraternity-suspended-from-drake-for-four-years/comment-page-1#comment-1255</link>
		<dc:creator>drake student</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 23:39:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesdelphic.com/?p=1738#comment-1255</guid>
		<description>Being a new member of the Greek Community at Drake, I find many of these comments to be harsh. Greeks are constantly being talked about as alcoholics and that they party too much, but I know many people in my house and the other houses that have never drank in their lives. Just because you join the Greek Community does not mean you love to party or drink. And if you were to take a look at the people who attend the parties thrown by Greek houses, almost half the people there aren&#039;t affiliated with our community. Drinking is not a problem that the Greeks have, drinking is a problem that college students have. I also don&#039;t think you can call the Drake students alcoholics or say that drinking is a huge problem our university has. If you visit any other college campus I can guarantee their students party just as much, if not more, than we do. Drake is just getting a bad rep. right now because our school is small and news/gossip travels fast. 

The Phi Delt incident really is a tragedy. I know many of the pledges and I could not begin to tell you how upset each one is because their house has been shut down. However, just because you no longer have the title as Phi Delts, does not mean your friendship has to end. Not everyone in the house was involved with the hazing incident and its sad to see everyone being punished for it. Also, Phi Delt was a dry house and it seems like everyone thinks the incident took place at their house, but it was at another location.

I also feel like I am constantly being told that the Greeks here tend to separate themselves from the non-Greeks or that we don&#039;t step up and take leadership opportunities. Please take a look at the members of SAB or Student Senate or PMACs or any other organization on campus, Greeks hold a position in almost every organization. We are leaders on campus.

I also think that it is important to hear Greek and non-Greek opinions on the things that have been happening around campus. If we exclude the thoughts and opinions of people who aren&#039;t in our organization, we are telling people that we only care about ourselves and that their opinions don&#039;t matter. Greek life is going to get an even worse reputation if this happens. 

And one last thing, saying that every house hazes is bullshit in my opinion. After I decided to become a pledge, I was extremely worried about being hazed and the members of my house told us time after time that hazing is not acceptable and we have very strong rules against it. To this day, and I am now an active member, I have never been hazed by my organization and I have friends in different houses who have also never been hazed. 

Its sad to see that the actions of one house is bringing down everyone in the Greek Community. We all understand the dangers of alcohol and hazing. Students on campus are constantly being reminded about what happened. I think its time to bring the incident to an end, stop publishing articles, stop getting the press involved, stop with the signs and lectures. We are being overwhelmed with the Phi Delt incident and honestly, the students stopped listening awhile ago. It will be easier for the Phi Delts to move on from the situation and in the end the student population, the Greeks and non-Greeks, are going to make their own decisions. If those decisions are good or bad is for us to find out but regardless of everything we&#039;re reading and being told, we most likely are not going to act differently. It&#039;s sad but its true and its our college experience.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Being a new member of the Greek Community at Drake, I find many of these comments to be harsh. Greeks are constantly being talked about as alcoholics and that they party too much, but I know many people in my house and the other houses that have never drank in their lives. Just because you join the Greek Community does not mean you love to party or drink. And if you were to take a look at the people who attend the parties thrown by Greek houses, almost half the people there aren&#8217;t affiliated with our community. Drinking is not a problem that the Greeks have, drinking is a problem that college students have. I also don&#8217;t think you can call the Drake students alcoholics or say that drinking is a huge problem our university has. If you visit any other college campus I can guarantee their students party just as much, if not more, than we do. Drake is just getting a bad rep. right now because our school is small and news/gossip travels fast. </p>
<p>The Phi Delt incident really is a tragedy. I know many of the pledges and I could not begin to tell you how upset each one is because their house has been shut down. However, just because you no longer have the title as Phi Delts, does not mean your friendship has to end. Not everyone in the house was involved with the hazing incident and its sad to see everyone being punished for it. Also, Phi Delt was a dry house and it seems like everyone thinks the incident took place at their house, but it was at another location.</p>
<p>I also feel like I am constantly being told that the Greeks here tend to separate themselves from the non-Greeks or that we don&#8217;t step up and take leadership opportunities. Please take a look at the members of SAB or Student Senate or PMACs or any other organization on campus, Greeks hold a position in almost every organization. We are leaders on campus.</p>
<p>I also think that it is important to hear Greek and non-Greek opinions on the things that have been happening around campus. If we exclude the thoughts and opinions of people who aren&#8217;t in our organization, we are telling people that we only care about ourselves and that their opinions don&#8217;t matter. Greek life is going to get an even worse reputation if this happens. </p>
<p>And one last thing, saying that every house hazes is bullshit in my opinion. After I decided to become a pledge, I was extremely worried about being hazed and the members of my house told us time after time that hazing is not acceptable and we have very strong rules against it. To this day, and I am now an active member, I have never been hazed by my organization and I have friends in different houses who have also never been hazed. </p>
<p>Its sad to see that the actions of one house is bringing down everyone in the Greek Community. We all understand the dangers of alcohol and hazing. Students on campus are constantly being reminded about what happened. I think its time to bring the incident to an end, stop publishing articles, stop getting the press involved, stop with the signs and lectures. We are being overwhelmed with the Phi Delt incident and honestly, the students stopped listening awhile ago. It will be easier for the Phi Delts to move on from the situation and in the end the student population, the Greeks and non-Greeks, are going to make their own decisions. If those decisions are good or bad is for us to find out but regardless of everything we&#8217;re reading and being told, we most likely are not going to act differently. It&#8217;s sad but its true and its our college experience.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe F</title>
		<link>http://www.timesdelphic.com/2009/11/16/fraternity-suspended-from-drake-for-four-years/comment-page-1#comment-1197</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe F</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 13:03:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesdelphic.com/?p=1738#comment-1197</guid>
		<description>&quot;Yes, there are problems, but the good far outweigh the bad. So when some have said the Phi Delt incident should be the nail in the coffin for the Greek community or that all houses are like this, yes, we do get upset because you don’t understand.&quot;

My counter would be that maybe it is you that just doesn&#039;t get it (and by you, I refer to those in the Greek system that think they are special and above the law, and the GDI members of the Drake community).

What&#039;s so dangerous about this factual statement: Greek houses haze their initiates by using alcohol to poison them.  I&#039;ve never talked to a single Greek that would deny this.  Not one.  Your &quot;secret&quot; isn&#039;t safe anymore. 

The Phi Delt incident should be the nail in the coffin for the business-as-usual way of business that the entire Greek community has been living under up to point.  If it serves as the nail in the coffin of the Greek system at Drake, all the better.  It&#039;s a win-win situation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Yes, there are problems, but the good far outweigh the bad. So when some have said the Phi Delt incident should be the nail in the coffin for the Greek community or that all houses are like this, yes, we do get upset because you don’t understand.&#8221;</p>
<p>My counter would be that maybe it is you that just doesn&#8217;t get it (and by you, I refer to those in the Greek system that think they are special and above the law, and the GDI members of the Drake community).</p>
<p>What&#8217;s so dangerous about this factual statement: Greek houses haze their initiates by using alcohol to poison them.  I&#8217;ve never talked to a single Greek that would deny this.  Not one.  Your &#8220;secret&#8221; isn&#8217;t safe anymore. </p>
<p>The Phi Delt incident should be the nail in the coffin for the business-as-usual way of business that the entire Greek community has been living under up to point.  If it serves as the nail in the coffin of the Greek system at Drake, all the better.  It&#8217;s a win-win situation.</p>
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		<title>By: Anon</title>
		<link>http://www.timesdelphic.com/2009/11/16/fraternity-suspended-from-drake-for-four-years/comment-page-1#comment-1188</link>
		<dc:creator>Anon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 05:43:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesdelphic.com/?p=1738#comment-1188</guid>
		<description>&quot;Clearly, if you’re not Greek, it’s not your place to comment on Greek life. Why you ask? Because you just don’t get it.&quot;

It&#039;s not that you don&#039;t have a place to comment on Greek life, but when you make it ignorant, then people will tell you that you just don&#039;t get it. Making broad generalizations of the houses is very dangerous. Yes, there are problems, but the good far outweigh the bad. So when some have said the Phi Delt incident should be the nail in the coffin for the Greek community or that all houses are like this, yes, we do get upset because you don&#039;t understand.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Clearly, if you’re not Greek, it’s not your place to comment on Greek life. Why you ask? Because you just don’t get it.&#8221;</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not that you don&#8217;t have a place to comment on Greek life, but when you make it ignorant, then people will tell you that you just don&#8217;t get it. Making broad generalizations of the houses is very dangerous. Yes, there are problems, but the good far outweigh the bad. So when some have said the Phi Delt incident should be the nail in the coffin for the Greek community or that all houses are like this, yes, we do get upset because you don&#8217;t understand.</p>
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		<title>By: so sad</title>
		<link>http://www.timesdelphic.com/2009/11/16/fraternity-suspended-from-drake-for-four-years/comment-page-1#comment-1182</link>
		<dc:creator>so sad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 04:16:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesdelphic.com/?p=1738#comment-1182</guid>
		<description>Clearly, if you&#039;re not Greek, it&#039;s not your place to comment on Greek life. Why you ask? Because you just don&#039;t get it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Clearly, if you&#8217;re not Greek, it&#8217;s not your place to comment on Greek life. Why you ask? Because you just don&#8217;t get it.</p>
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		<title>By: LJ</title>
		<link>http://www.timesdelphic.com/2009/11/16/fraternity-suspended-from-drake-for-four-years/comment-page-1#comment-1174</link>
		<dc:creator>LJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 20:53:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesdelphic.com/?p=1738#comment-1174</guid>
		<description>I am a Teke and was a member of the Drake Chapter in the mid-seventies.  The chater even then was the smallest house on campus and was roundly ridiculed for its no-hazing policy.

I am proud to have been a member when we came to this futuristic decision and hope that others now see us in a slightly different light.

And yes the Phi Delts ALWAYS kicked us around in sports.  At least the TKEs will be there to play this winter.

(However we WON the academic trophy every year I was there, with me having the lowest score in the house.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am a Teke and was a member of the Drake Chapter in the mid-seventies.  The chater even then was the smallest house on campus and was roundly ridiculed for its no-hazing policy.</p>
<p>I am proud to have been a member when we came to this futuristic decision and hope that others now see us in a slightly different light.</p>
<p>And yes the Phi Delts ALWAYS kicked us around in sports.  At least the TKEs will be there to play this winter.</p>
<p>(However we WON the academic trophy every year I was there, with me having the lowest score in the house.)</p>
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		<title>By: A Bulldog</title>
		<link>http://www.timesdelphic.com/2009/11/16/fraternity-suspended-from-drake-for-four-years/comment-page-1#comment-1169</link>
		<dc:creator>A Bulldog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 19:37:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesdelphic.com/?p=1738#comment-1169</guid>
		<description>Although I am not Greek, I can sympathize with Phi Delt&#039;s situation. I am friends with plenty of Greeks and know for a fact that not one single fraternity or sorority has a spotless record. The recent events concerning Phi Delt and the Sigma Chi probation are just one of many transgressions that range from binge drinking, dirty rushing and sexual misconduct- all the way to over 30 Pikes and football players beating the snot out of a few SAE brothers a couple of years back. And no- the sororities aren&#039;t innocent bystanders in all of this either.  
At this point, I believe its time the Greeks start practicing what they preach. They wear the t-shirts (are you a leader or a follower? note: you&#039;re reading the my t-shirt :-), speak of brother and sisterhood and the importance of social and campus-wide philanthropy and are always first to point out that they breed leaders and men/women of action. If that is the case, prove it. I know Greeks cannot control everything that happens in their world, but take responsibility and retake control of your respective houses. Its gotten to the point where its indisputable that something drastic happens every, single year. This must stop. No excuses, no bullshit- just stop.
Note: this isn&#039;t coming from a bitter GDI who doesn&#039;t understand/hates Greeks. I&#039;ve dated Greeks and some of my best friends are in houses. I love you guys to death. But at this point, if campus-wide and nation wide perceptions of Greeks and the system as a whole are to change- it begins and ends with you guys. The perceived &quot;aura&quot; of invincibility that even I must admit- many Greeks have- has been completely blown out the window. I believe that for Greek street, this is a much needed dose of reality. Unfortunately a house and an entire brotherhood with a proud 50 year tradition here had to be lost in the process. 
The first two friends I made at Drake ended up pledging Phi Delt and FIJI, I myself was a heartbeat away from joining Phi Delt my freshman year. Please Greeks, learn from this. Because I for one, would absolutely hate to see another house- another brother/sisterhood needlessly lost.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Although I am not Greek, I can sympathize with Phi Delt&#8217;s situation. I am friends with plenty of Greeks and know for a fact that not one single fraternity or sorority has a spotless record. The recent events concerning Phi Delt and the Sigma Chi probation are just one of many transgressions that range from binge drinking, dirty rushing and sexual misconduct- all the way to over 30 Pikes and football players beating the snot out of a few SAE brothers a couple of years back. And no- the sororities aren&#8217;t innocent bystanders in all of this either.<br />
At this point, I believe its time the Greeks start practicing what they preach. They wear the t-shirts (are you a leader or a follower? note: you&#8217;re reading the my t-shirt <img src='http://www.timesdelphic.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> , speak of brother and sisterhood and the importance of social and campus-wide philanthropy and are always first to point out that they breed leaders and men/women of action. If that is the case, prove it. I know Greeks cannot control everything that happens in their world, but take responsibility and retake control of your respective houses. Its gotten to the point where its indisputable that something drastic happens every, single year. This must stop. No excuses, no bullshit- just stop.<br />
Note: this isn&#8217;t coming from a bitter GDI who doesn&#8217;t understand/hates Greeks. I&#8217;ve dated Greeks and some of my best friends are in houses. I love you guys to death. But at this point, if campus-wide and nation wide perceptions of Greeks and the system as a whole are to change- it begins and ends with you guys. The perceived &#8220;aura&#8221; of invincibility that even I must admit- many Greeks have- has been completely blown out the window. I believe that for Greek street, this is a much needed dose of reality. Unfortunately a house and an entire brotherhood with a proud 50 year tradition here had to be lost in the process.<br />
The first two friends I made at Drake ended up pledging Phi Delt and FIJI, I myself was a heartbeat away from joining Phi Delt my freshman year. Please Greeks, learn from this. Because I for one, would absolutely hate to see another house- another brother/sisterhood needlessly lost.</p>
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		<title>By: Anon</title>
		<link>http://www.timesdelphic.com/2009/11/16/fraternity-suspended-from-drake-for-four-years/comment-page-1#comment-1165</link>
		<dc:creator>Anon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 19:04:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesdelphic.com/?p=1738#comment-1165</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s a party at bar that the Phi Delts are known to congregate at. It&#039;s a farewell. This could have been any fraternity, and if they want to go out this way, let them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s a party at bar that the Phi Delts are known to congregate at. It&#8217;s a farewell. This could have been any fraternity, and if they want to go out this way, let them.</p>
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		<title>By: Erickson</title>
		<link>http://www.timesdelphic.com/2009/11/16/fraternity-suspended-from-drake-for-four-years/comment-page-1#comment-1159</link>
		<dc:creator>Erickson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 17:29:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesdelphic.com/?p=1738#comment-1159</guid>
		<description>Student, they &quot;aren&#039;t celebrating the fact that they almost killed a kid.&quot; Poor decisions were made by everyone involved with the alleged hazing incident. The fraternity wasnt about what happened there. These kids just want to get together and have one last event to remember the good times they had with Phi Delt.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Student, they &#8220;aren&#8217;t celebrating the fact that they almost killed a kid.&#8221; Poor decisions were made by everyone involved with the alleged hazing incident. The fraternity wasnt about what happened there. These kids just want to get together and have one last event to remember the good times they had with Phi Delt.</p>
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